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| AbroadPlanet Forums -> Brat-3: ACTR Students Community | Post new topic |
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04-Feb-2001 04:52 PM |
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AlikUS |
Ok,guys...It's a good question you revealed...What can I say...Yerkin,you are right that most immigrants here are from Ukraine,my country.It's in nation's mentality:always try to find place where it's better than at home.Who cares about "Rodina"?"Moya hata s krayu".And we can fully understand that statement.Everytime I call home(every 2 weeks)my parents are more desperate about the life:thieves,drugs,cosmic prices,dragonic government policy...But NEVER they told me:stay there.I am nobody here-without degree,relatives,friends...Always alien to this country.ALIEN-that's how they call us in official immigration related papers.I had really nice experience with "nazional'noy terpimostyu" of Americans...She called me "commy,go back to where the hell you from,it's not good to get pregnant to stay here!"That's the average student statement... They are scared of us for some reasons: -we are smarter -we receive the best job offers coz we are not so lazy to study and get what we want -we are better inside,in our souls -we always find something out coz we are creative,etc...[add whatever you want] Don't be fooled by the statements that America is a free country-ha-ha!EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL,like in USSR...even worth...I know this,cause I work for a government organization. It's right that most of people want to stay here for ever...Yope...life is sugar here if to compare...So,what?It's personal choice where to be and how to spend the whole life,which will be too planned if you stay here,Neo and Yerik are quite right,but if you return-you'll never know how it will be-always challenge,always choice.People afraide to make choices-it's the biggest burden to the mankind[consult Heidegger,Sartr or whomever you prefer from existentialism]The best solution is to receive education here coz it's one of the best in the world,aren't I right? One more thing,if you want to stay here,I know how to do this,just e-mail me.It's pretty easy and you mustn't sell yourself to any American spouse. I personally will return home.Though,it's not because I'm obsessed with idea of helping my nation.Actually,I'm cosmopolitan person.I don't feel myself like I'm Russian or Ukrainian,I'm just citizen of the Earth...But I live in Ukraine,and there are my friends,my parents and my future,that I must create myself.I must break all the gates myself.I'll do this and I'll be the best off.We are new generation,we can and we must change the things.NO BULL [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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04-Feb-2001 06:45 PM |
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komsaid1 |
AlikUS, I understand your saying "I'm the Citizen of Earth", sometimes (I should say most ofthe time) I feel the same. But again you are right about friedns and family.
I have friends here too, and honestly, I will miss hem when I'm back to Tajikistan, but my BEST friends are there, coz the friends here will never understand some things that my friends there do. I don't know if I'm obsessed with the idea of helping my nation, my country, but I know for sure I wanna help my country (I just don't know whether it's obsession or not, I would say no). I used to think like "Why should it be ME to think about it, if no one else around does, no one cares, why should I care?", but now I think differently. People there live for theirselves, and think for others, when it should be in the contrary, live not only for yourself, but for your nation, and think for yourself. Note: NOT think ABOUT yourself, think FOR yourself, means live a conscious life. this looks like another real simple experience that I had in my life, and which really was even not worth talking about, but which tought me something. A friend of mine, some other guys and I were standing on the street, and some guy was eating sunflower nuts. And he was throwing the garbage right on the ground. My friend made a notice telling him that it's not ethical, and that we should try and keep our streets clean. That guy said "well, if not me then some one else will anyways do it. no one cares, why should I?" And that case tought me something: if everyone thought for himself life would be easier, if we instead of saying "no one cares, why should I?" we said "I dont' care if there is someone who will anyways do this, I WILL NOT DO IT". Actually we should care if there is someone who does that, but we should think of it not as an excuse for ourselves, but what to do to decrease the number of that kinda people. But if you can't help them, then at least don't do that yourself. And it's not concernong just that one case, it concerns ecerything, every aspect of life. We learnt a very good saying in psychology "If you wanna change the attitude of people towards you, change YOUR attitude towards them". I really wanna help my country, as much as I can, and I'll do all I can for that, but again, staying here doesn't mean betreyal, coz there are people within the country, who never even have to go outside the country, and they still betray their nation, and there are people who live away from their homecountries, and they contribute to the history of their country much more great things than those who are in the country. Just to bring an example, there are a bunch of journalist and reporter within my country, who write and report nonsense, the things that never even interest anyone... And there were Olimpoor and Latifi, the two journalists, who did much more for the country, and they were not in the country, coz they knew they wouldn't be able to do anything there, and I should say they were right. As soon as they came back they were killed, some people didn't like the truth they told, some didn't like the party they belonged to, and now no one knows why they were murdered. I wouldn't leave my country, coz I know the pain people went through there, the pain that the war caused. And I was still too small to understand what losing a person REALLY means, but I was old enought ot see the pain, and for me the pain was seeing pain in theeyes of those I love, and from that moment on I can't forget that pain I saw int he eyes of people. And now I understand that it would be dishonest ot leave people in your coutry suffer, experincepain, when you are just enjoying your life, because among those people are your relatives, your family, your friends... YOUR NATION. Neo, ty govorish' chto ty uveren tut luchshie predstaviteli svoijkh stran, i v to zhe vremya govorish', chto ty uveren 99.9% ostalis' by tut po vozmozhnosti, i chto tol'ko dlya togo chto by onine chuvstvovali sebya "Krysami....", ty goovrish' chto eto tozhe khorosho. Ok, ty khorosho otozvalsya o tekh kto reshili vernutsya nazad, no znachit chto ty schitaesh' ostal'nykh "krysami", I tell you you are completely wrong!!! (I wrote the reason above) Yekin, ty govorish' chto zarezal by lyubogo kazakha chto khotel by green karty poluchit', ya by na tvom meste ne toropilas' takoe reshenie sdelat', mozhet tot kazakh pomog by kazakhstanu bol'she otsyudogo chem tam zhe, skazhem esli by on pomog detskomu domu v Kazakhstane, dopustim $10.000. Zdes' emu gorazdo legche bylo by zarabotat' eti den'gi, i tut, esli khorosho porabotat', etu summu mozhno nabrat' primerno za 4 mesyatsa, i eto ne vklyuchaya svoi ezhednevnye raskhody (Nuzhno vremya chto by do etoy zarplaty doyti, no mozhno). V to vremya kak dlya detskikh domov tam u nas (I mean CIS) eti $10.000 znachili by ochen' mnogo. I esli by takikh kazakhov tut bylo ne odin, a 5 ili 6, to eto uzhe gorazdo bol'she. So think twice before you say that. But i agree that there should also be someone IN the country who is willing to help it. YR [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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04-Feb-2001 07:50 PM |
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AlikUS |
Komsaid1, you say one can help his country more if one stays here,in US & you r giving that example of a kazakh donating money for an asylum,I wonder,do you really believe in that?How many examples of this you've seen?Huh? None,I guess.So why should it happen?There is no reasons for this. Moreover,when you are living for some time in a different culture,you imbibe the principles of this culture. In our case,we have highly individualistic culture of the U.S.A. where people motivated only to gain profit from things they are doing.Don't you agree with me? There is no profit for that kazakh giving out money to some asylum in the country of his origin. The opportunity cost of such a transaction if it will occur is too high. He could put that money into stock market and gain some capital. He could also begin his own business and HERE WE HAVE THE CASE THAT YOU MUST HAVE SHOWEN AS AN EXAMPLE in your message.The thing he can do is to make FDI(foreign direct investment)in Kazakhstan's economy,that means to conduct joint business with a firm back there. Only this can boost economy and increase dramatically living conditions of his nation. NOONE WILL DO NOTHING WITHOUT GAINING SOMETHING-the basic economic principle. So,now our discussion that began with moral issue ended up with economic theory. I personally think,that this is from where our decisions about "staying or not" will come from. We,people,naturally care more about well-being then moral issues.Although,in nations of NIS moral takes greater part of thoughts then it does in America. Nobody must blame,therefore,anybody for his/her decision. Go ahead,receive waiver,arrange co-op and live here. yours, AlikUS,recently taking macroeconomics and business management courses... [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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04-Feb-2001 09:10 PM |
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vlipli_eshe_bolshe |
Guys, I don't know why, but during the last week I had 5 discussions with different people on the topic of STAYING or LEAVING. And when I visited our portal, I found it again - it seems to just penetrate everywhere... Yeah, you are right, this is the theme that captures everyone's attention and touches our souls.
I want to ask you guys: have you got really good friends among Americans? Frankly speaking, I don't. My best friends here are from CIS, and I have good buddies from other countries, like Turkey, Kongo, Greece. But no USA. I think that even if one stays here, he or she will never BELONG. Have you noticed that all the ethnic groups usually stay together in the USA and reach out only for business purposes? Another aspect. Speaking about helping our countries from abroad, I wanted to ask you: who gives more - a milllionaire sending $10,000 to an asylum, or a retired babushka sending her last 15 rubles? And one more thing that matters is motives. Does the millionaire do that to be free of taxes? Or because his nephew lives in this asylum? Or cuz he really wants to help? I would like to hear your opinion guys. P.S. I personally will go back to my Novosibirsk and do something for the system of our education. P.P.S. Alikus, one can easily notice that you are taking those courses - you have accepted that terminology really well! [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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04-Feb-2001 10:38 PM |
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komsaid1 |
I odn't agree with you. You asked if I know someone who did that for his country, well I tell you YES, and not just one person. I know (well, not personally) a person from Tajikistan, who's now abroad (not in the US though), who made donation to an asylum in Tajikistan. I also know two otehr people who made donation to secondary schools, well, not as much, but the fact is that there was such a case. And remember I told about that person from Canada that I knew? He is originally either from Pakistan or India, I don't remember exactly. He got his education in Canada and stayed there. He began with a low level. He had to work really hard, and then he got to work in some Governmental department. Now he is retired and rich, and he is voluntarily working for a organisation (he's not paid for that) he goes to Pakistan and India and helps people, he makes donations, and much more than those $10.000 i mentioned, many times more, he still works for his nation, even though he's not living in is country any more (and since he was a student he lived and worked in Canada), and now he makes donations to his country that he wouldn't be ble to do if he stayed there. It took him a whole life to get to the level of wealthiness that he is in now, but he finally got there, and the whole lifetime in Canada didn't make him forget that there are those in need in his country. And before i met him, I thought just like other people in this forum did "I love my country, my counntry needs me, and other people who'd be as devoted, and I WILL be back to my country after that one year, and I WILL serve my country", after meeting him something has changed in that, I still love my country, and I still think that it needs me, I still think I WILL serve my country, but now I think I can do it in a better way, not necessarily by staying here. But education and degree recieved here would help relly much, and staying here wouldn't make me forget my country. But even if a person decided to cooperate with a farm there, let it be even profitable for him/herself, wouldn't it still be good for the country? Alik, I know what you are saying, and unfortunately I have to admit that most people are like that, but not EVERYONE. And even if a person decides to come back to his home country, that still doesn't mean he in fact is helping his country, does it? There are lots of people making money by trickig the others, now tell me who is better serving for his country, the one who is tricking people in his own country and making profit out of it, but he stays in his country, or the one who lives abroad, who makes profit out of woking with some farmer in his country, but his profit is not based on tricks, and he gives job and good living for those who live there?
And now answer to Vlipli's question: Do I have good friends here. Yes I do, in fact my best friend here is an American. My friend from CIS seems to understand me less than my from America. And my rm is an American, and we are friends too. Of course she has her own friends, and I have my own, but still, when I had hard time, there were three people there for me, and two of them were Americans, my rm and my other friend. Yes, I agree that ethnically we will always differ from them, yes, people from different ethnic groups try to keep together, but I think that for real friendship ethnic group doesn't really matter. People differ, and it's the matter of personality, not just culture, to make friends. Here there are many people from CIS, and I have just one friend among them, the others I should say are just "znakomye", I have more friends among Americans than I do among CIS citizens here. But that's not because I chose my friends to be American, you don't choose friends, you just find them. I have friends from CIS in this portal, and I think they are great. I don't think it's a big challenge to have friends of some particular nationality, i think having friends IS a challenge, no matter what is the nationality or race of your friends. And the same about the match of your life, I don't think nationality matters if there is Love. Yours, Roxy P.S. I am still undecided about whether I would come back here or not, but I will be honest, it's the case of possibility, not making up my mind. And getting married is not a way... well, it is a way - a way to escape from your country, but what I really don't wanna do is to escape from my country. [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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04-Feb-2001 11:13 PM |
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Neo |
I tak.. Ya rad shto nasha Roxy tak jivo uhvatilas' za moy urok #1! It works for you guys!!!!! I'm happy!
Primite echo 1 urok.. Obcheizvestno shto bogatoe obchestvo nachinaetsya s bogatstva prostogo cheloveka... Moral': Ostavayas' zdes', i obagochayas' sam - ya obogachayu i svoyu stranu! Bingo! Duk ya j samuy shto ni na est' patriot! Vse prosto Prosto! ========some replies to you guys========= To Yerkin: Bratuha, tu ne prav ya tebe skaju... naschet zarezat' kajdogo kazaha kto zdes' ostat'sya hochet.... Nu vot skaji mne... nahera vam takie kazakhi kotorue v trudnuy moment gotovu pokinut' svoyu stranu? Imenno togda kogda ih pomoch kak raz nujna.... nam k primeru takie "ukraincu" ne nujnu... A but' patriotom bgatoy i procvetayuchey stranu - duk tut mnogo uma ne nado... A vot kogda nicheta... vot eto challenge! To Roxy: Ya govoril samue luchie... ya imel vvidu po mozgah... a ne po sercah.. bessporno.. zdes' samue luchie umu... no ne samue luchie serdca... k sojaleniyu To AlikUS: Pravilno muslish... doljen skazat' sho esli vu i schitaete menya yarum patriotom ili nacionalistom.. doljen vas ogorchit' vu oshibaetes'... Ya toje consider myself to be "citizen of the universe".. shto mne Ukrana.... shto mne mir... mne ves' Universe podavay:-)) nu eto bul joke:-))) Prosto u menya sechas pristup patriotizma izza situacii kotoraya sechas v Ukraine... Ladno, Alik, v tvoih mesagah promelknula info kotoraya menya zainteresovala, a immenno .. tu shtoto govoril pro SP.. sechas etot vopros menya ochen' interesuet i ya rabotayu v etom napravlenii... esli tu shtoto znaesh ob etom... please help... mojet ktoto drugoy znaet.. to ne obesud'te.. To Vlipli_echo_bolshe: :-))) I like your nick:-)) Uznayu creativnuyu Natashku:-)) Ya tut nekotoroe vremya ne pokazuvalsya na portale.... No interesno... kogda i kuda eto vu uspeli "vlipnut'_echo_bolshe":-))? Ya rad slushat' shto tu vozvrachaehsya v NNNovosibirsk... Daje ne tak eto... a slushat' tvoe jelanie shtoto sdelat'.. a eto uje mnogo... the way to do! Ya v tebe ne oshibalsya... Nu che guys... esli u kogo est' interesuyuchaya menya info, please sbroste na mulo... i na sey radostnoy note hochu pojelat' vam udachno provesti ostatok voskresen'ya.... i sil na novuyu nedelyu... Pa-Pa! Andy, on je Andrey, on je Almagesta, on je Neo, on je prostoy paren' kotoruy ne umeet zakruvat' glaza.. on je one of those who cares.... [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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04-Feb-2001 11:23 PM |
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AlikUS |
No friends among Americans too.They do not understand us. Just good relations.What can I add?You are right,Vlipli... [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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05-Feb-2001 12:22 AM |
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Svetlana |
hey, Kmelnichanin!
did you get the idea of who is replying to you? yep, it's me and ... do you wanna me post also, just as a tiny little addition to the phrase you included in your previous letter "Andrey, on je Almagesta, on je Neo, on je prostoy paren' kotoruy ne umeet zakruvat' glaza.. on je one of those who care.." something like...a boy with huge imagination? you know what i mean talk to you later take care and reduce your fantasy a bit, ok? Sveta P.S. FOR YERKIN: we are friends , right? soooooo... PLEASE do not correct my mistakes here ,in public. if you have something to say, please use my e-mail thanks [Brat 3: University of Pennsylvania I] |
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