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| AbroadPlanet Forums -> Brat-3: ACTR Students Community | Post new topic |
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08-Apr-2001 06:05 AM |
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X_Ray |
Oleg, ya ne hochu s toboy sporit' ili chto-to dokazyvat'. Ton tvoego pervogo message daet ponyat', chto ty vse reshil dlya sebya i tebe vse ravno chto schitayut drugie. Message ya postnul tol'ko iz-za timura. No esli tebe deystvitel'no interesno, chto ya dumayu po etomu povodu, to pozhaluysta. Esli vozniknut voprosy, budu rad popytat'sa otvetit'.
1. Ya tak schitayu potomu chto eto deystvitel'no tak, i esli kto ne soglasen, to "pust' pervy brosit v menya kamen' " . U vseh nas est' za chto styditsa i chto pryatat'. Vsyu svoyu zhizn' ya iskal otvetov na svoi voprosy: chto eto za suschestvo chelovek, otkuda on prishel, kuda idet, i v chem smysl ego suschestvovaniya. Ya vyros na knigah i ponyatiya u menya byli dovol'no idealisticheskie. Zhizn' pokazala, chto ne vse v poryadke v datskom korolevstve. V lyuboy sfere nashey zhizni idet zagnivanie. Kul'turologi otsenivayut nyneshniy period kak zagnivanie civilizatsii. Mirovyh resursov vryad li hvatit bol'she chem na sto let, tret' naseleniya planety golodaet kogda 90% protsentov mirovyh bogatsv nahoditsa v rukah, skol'ki, 5%? Svetlye golovy dolgo ne zhivut, da i im gorditsa nechego esli nichego ne smogli izmenit'.. Govorish' chelovechestvo davno vylezlo iz pelenok? Soglasen - ono uzhe vpalo v marazm. 2. Istinoy ya schitayu to, chto suschestvuet obyektivno, nezavisimo ot nashego vospriyatiya i otnosheniya k nemu. Istina - eto to chto deystvitel'no i postoyanno. Istina odna. Istina - eto Bog. Ya soglasen s tvoim otnosheniyem k religiyam. Dlya menya religiya - eto ritualy i traditsii. No mne interesno, kak ty mozhesh' verit' v Boga i ne zabotit'sa o Ego mnenii o tvoey zhizni? Ty govorish' chto tebe ne v chem kayat'sa, a ved' ravnodushie k Bogu eto i est' greh. Govorish', zhit' nado tak chtoby ne strashno bylo dat' otvet za lyuboy moment svoey zhizni.. Komu? Esli Bogu, to podumay o tom chto s Ego pamyatyu vsya tvoya zhizn' kak na ladoni. Vsya, vklyuchaya mysli. T.e. kogda ty kogo to myslenno poslal kuda-to ne po naznacheniyu, zahotel chego-to chto ne tebe prinadlezhit, na kogo-to zatail obidu, itd, itp.. Nas spasaet tol'ko odno - ego lyubov'. Pochemu my schitaetm, chto Bog takoy, kakim my ego vidim? On - istina. Perefraziruyu Kennedy: "Don't ask for what God can do for you, ask for what you can do for God". Hope it makes sense. [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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08-Apr-2001 06:54 AM |
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coolman |
Nurbek, as always, you rock, dude!
Are you going to be a preacher after you are done with your 1st higher education? Anyhow, tell me please - and here I am in the same position as our friend Aria - if God is in control of everything, and if He knows everything, why doesn't he stop atrocities that we commit every day? For in the Bible He used to do that once in a while. I know that GOD exists. He is in those who want to accept Him. He acts through them. But my understanding of Him is too vague, so I betta go to bed. [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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08-Apr-2001 06:06 PM |
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Aria1100 |
X_Ray,ochen' neploxo:-)Deistvitel'no it makes sense...Bolshoe spasibo Kak ia i skazal ran'she:"sledit' za mysl'u umnogo cheloveka uvlekatel'neishee zaniatie":-) I deistvitel'no zapasy istoshautsia,i xvatit ix gorazdo men'she chem na 100 let...benzin i gaz zakonchatsia uzhe men'she chem cherez 50 let...no vse taki...posmotri na istoriu vsei zcivilizazcii...padenia smeniautsia vzletami i snova padeniami...Esti ispytania kotorye nas lomaut,est' kotorye delaut nas sil'nee...vozmozhno chelovechestvo i vstretilos' s ispytaniem kotoroe ego slomaet...a vozmozhno net...neznau,ia veru v cheloveka i chelovechestvo...mozhet naprasno,no veru...pozhivem uvidim:-)Istina nezavisit ot nashego vospriatia i otnoshenia...interesno,togda zachem ona sushestvuet?Chto by bylo? )"ravnodushie k Bogu eto i est' greh"...neznau...pomoemu ne bol'shii grex chem ravnodushie k tomu chto on sozdal...A otvet davat' Bogu? Kakomu?Alaxu?Budde?Krishne?Iaxve?Pravoslavnomu?Katolicheskomu? Net uzh uvol'te...edinstvennyi barometr svoego povedenia eto moia sovest'...i on est' u kazhdogo...xot' v etom nas sozdatel' ne kinul...Esli on istina,nepogreshimoe i besgreshnoe sushestvo,to skoree vsego plevat' emu na nas i na nashi dela,veru,stradania,bol' i krov'...skoree vsego togda ni suda ni raia net...vse v ad...a che tam razbiratsia?On bezgreshen,a u nas u vsex kak ty skazal xot' chto nibud' da est'...Zachem emu nasha lubov'?Tozhe chto by bylo?I kogo iz vsex bogov ty predpochitaesh' bol'she?Katoliki i pravoslavnye v etom voprose chertovski odnoznachny:"Qui non est nobiscum adversus nos est!" Kto ne s nami-tot protiv nas...Eto kak po tvoemu spravedlivo?S drugoi storony gde voobshe v zhizni spravedlivost'?! U menia 2 varianta povedenia kotorye sobludaet Bog: 1. Ili on ne xochet nichego sdelat' 2. Libo ne mozhet... Game over... [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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08-Apr-2001 06:12 PM |
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musliba |
lyubov' ved' i pravda spaset mir!
timour, poprobuyu ya tebe otvetit' pokoroche: vidish li ya prosto uje ne znayu skol'ko raz slyshala etot vopros: "esli Bog takoi moguchiy i nas tak lyubit, to pochemu on ne ostanovit vse bedy i neschast'ya na etoi planete?" podumai, on sozdal cheloveka razumnym, sposobnym vybirat' i dal emu svod pravil, ne takix uj i slojnyx na samom dele. ty je sam znaesh,chto iz togo chto ty delaesh est' xorosho, a chto ploxo. no ty uporno delaesh to chto ploxo, a potom nakopiv etot bogatyi zapas vsyakoi dryani v svoei biografii, kotoraya v konce koncov povernulas' k tebe zadom i tebe teper' prixoditsa za vse platit, ty nachinaesh sprashivat', pochemu je Bog takoi velikiy i moguchiy nbe izbavit menya ot etix stradaniy??? pochemu je nikto nichego dlya etogo ne xochet delat' a jdet postoyannyx podarkov ot Nego?? On nas lyubit vsegda, daje kogda my Ego ne lyubim, no On takje i spravedliv nastol'ko chtob dat' tebe pravo samomu vybirat' naskol'ko ty xochesh chtob vse chto ty sdelal obernulos' k tebe dobrom ili zlom. a vse namnogo prosche, esli tebe tak uj nevmogotu, mojno prosto ochen' iskrenne Ego poprosit', i skazat' chto tebe ochen' ploxo, poprosit' proscheniya u Nego i u vsex komu ty sdelal ploxo i na kogo ty obidelsya. i On pomojet, esli konechno v etom ne somnevatsa. a escho ochen' vajno ne zabyvat', chto Bog ne po silam ispytaniy ne daet i esli chto to u tebya na samom dele ne laditsa, to eto ne tak strashno i you can get over it, tol'ko nado postaratsa. vot love you as always )
vasha masha [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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09-Apr-2001 04:40 PM |
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X_Ray |
Tima, Masha, ya dumayu, otvetila na tvoi vopros. Tol'ko hochu uglubit', kak govoritsa, i rasshirit'.
Deystvitel'no, podumay, esli chelovek byl sozdan so svobodoy voli, to lyuboe ogranichenie takovoy oznachalo by chto eto uzhe ne chelovek, a biologicheskiy robot. S drugoy storony, Bogu sovsem ne bezrazlichno, chto my zdes' tvorim. Ishodya iz predposylki, chto On sozdal nas, a takzhe vselennuyu i vse chto v ney, On dostatochno kompetentent v tom chto govorit i delaet. Sledovatel'no, esli komu by to ni bylo doveryat', to tol'ko Emu. Uchityvaya to, chto Ego intellect neizmerimo vyshe nashego, bylo by nelepo predpolagat', chto On sozdast lyudey tol'ko dlya togo chtoby zabyt' o nih. U Nego byl plan s samogo nachala, kotory on posledovatel'no privodil v zhizn'. Esli ty chital Vethi Zavet, to navernyaka zametil, chto On "rabotal" tol'ko s evreyami, potomkami Avraama, kotory poveril Bogu. Tak chto nakazyval i blagoslovlyal On tol'ko ih. Konechno zhe eto ne moglo ne zadet' ih sosedey i teh kto pytalsa ih istrebit' ili pomeshat' vypolnit' Ego volyu. Zachem On eto delal? Otvet sm. v Novom Zavete. On privodil v ispolnenie plan, kotory, ne lishaya nas svobody vybora, dal nam vozmozhnost' izbezhat' Ego gneva za vse zlo kotoroe my uspeli natvorit'. Poetomu v danny moment my i nablyudaem "zatish'e pered burey". Zdes' vazhno uchityvat' otlichie nashego myshleniya ot Ego. Radi teh kto imeet vozmozhnost' poverit' v Ego Syna i spastis', On ne nakazyvaet teh kogo sleduet. No eto ne oznachaet chto nakzanie otmenyaetsa, prosto otkladyvaetsa do pory do vremeni. Otsyuda moral': ne pora li podumat' gde i v kakih usloviyah provodit' vechnost'? [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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09-Apr-2001 05:41 PM |
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X_Ray |
Oleg,
Raduet tvoya vera v chelovechestvo, tol'ko na chem konkretno ona osnovanna? Na "avos'"? "Ved' pronosilo zhe vsegda, avos' i v etot raz proneset"..tak? Davay predstavim istoriyu chelovechestva v vide grafika, tipa teh chto chasto risuyut v karikaturah. Oni obychno sostoyat iz vzletov i padeniy dohodov, dostizheniy, itd., no nablyudaetsa obschiy trend v storonu padeniya ili rosta. Tak vot, iz togo chto ya znayu, obschi trend chelovechestva stremitsa k padeniyu i my uzhe dovol'no blizko k nulyu. Vopros "zachem?" otnositsa k predmetam imeyuschim nachalo, i sledovatel'no sotvorennym. Istina est' Bog, a Bog vechen, sledovatel'no samodostatochen. On ne nuzhdaetsa v prichine, On est'. S drugoy storony, my imeem nachalo, a znachit nuzhdaemsa v prichine nashego sushestvovaniya - "Esli kto-to nas sdelal, to zachem?". A vot eto uzhe interesno! Vot chego Bogu ne hvataet, tak eto ravnodushiya! Davno vyzheg by uzhe chervey zemnyh da chto nibud' novoe sozdal, tak net - nyanchitsa vse. Vopros o tom kto zhe etot Bog, volonval menya s davnih por. Esli by ty pochital istoriyu religiy, to o Budde by ne upominal. Prints Gautama v Boga ne veril. Krishna - eto popytka predstavit' Hindu panteism v monoteisticheskoy forme. Allah eto tot zhe Bog chto i Yahve v interpretatsii proroka Muhammeda. Bog mozhet byt' tol'ko odin po opredeleniyu. Est' tol'ko tri osnovnyh religii veruyuschih v odnogo Boga - Islam, Hristianstvo i Iudaism. Vse oni osnovanny na odnoy knige - Biblii. Otsyuda vyvod - "a larchik otkryvalsa prosto". Lyudi imeyut otvet na vopros "Kto est' Bog, i chego On ot nas hochet?", i nastol'ko ochevidny, chto ne obraschayut na nego vnimaniya, a zrya. Kogda ludi otvernulis' ot Boga, u nih ostalas' tol'ko sovest'. Dlya ateista sovest' - naivysshi sudya. Pravda etot tryuk ne srabatyvaet vo mnogih sluchayah, ved' sovest' ne odna i ta zhe u vseh i mnogie etim pol'zuyutsa do pory do vremeni. Naschet religiy ya uzhe vyskazal svoe mnenie v pervy raz. Ne yasno, chto ty imel pod "game is over". Esli ponyal pravil'no to "game has just started". [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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09-Apr-2001 08:05 PM |
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musliba |
privet,
interesno, a esli by vse byli science major, to vsem by eto dostupno stalo??  ))
! nichego ne imeyu protiv vsex drugix majors! da, a moei jenskoi logiki naverno by ne xvatilo chtob tak vse razlojit', u menya naverno odna romantika i babochki s vozdushnymi sharikami v golove )))
u menya opyat' vesna nastala, v 3 raz v etom godu ))
love, vasha masha [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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09-Apr-2001 09:02 PM |
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Usernamer |
Fuck your crappy cheesy ass [Brat3: University of Pennsylvania II] |
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